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	<title>Comments on: just wondering</title>
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	<description>thoughts on our journey with God</description>
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		<title>By: Eamonn</title>
		<link>http://wonderfulexchange.wordpress.com/2007/06/26/just-wondering/#comment-1487</link>
		<dc:creator>Eamonn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jul 2007 10:24:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I’ve been very interested in the connections some of the contributors to this discussion have made between the study of literature and reading and reflecting on Scripture. I wasn’t very good at literary criticism as an undergraduate, and really only learned about approaches that worked once I started teaching. Similarly, I learned more about Scripture once I started preaching and teaching as a Lay Reader than I ever had before. (I should qualify that by adding that at a previous stage of my career I was privileged to be in touch with leading biblical and theological scholars who gave me a great deal of help and support.)
	In the RC Church in which I was brought up, prayer was something that was performed mechanically, as an obligation, and had little to do with prayerfulness in one’s daily life. Nor was one really encouraged to study Scripture (this was before Vatican II). What attracted me to Anglicanism in my mid-30s was the freedom to explore and reflect in the light of one’s own experience, and to discuss with others who were at a different stage of their journey. My prayer-life (such as it is) has developed through the riches of the liturgy, which I was fortunate to experience in a convent setting in the 1950s, at a time when the average parochial church offered little by way of inspiration. The transition to a mid-to-high Anglican style in Scotland was very easy, and the liturgy continues to be the main setting for prayer.
	So if anyone out there is hesitant about tackling these big questions, or feels that the teaching they receive is inadequate or non-existent, the good old principle of learning by doing has served me well. There are no set rules, and people of good will find their own way to God, with the help of the Spirit working through them in fellowship with others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’ve been very interested in the connections some of the contributors to this discussion have made between the study of literature and reading and reflecting on Scripture. I wasn’t very good at literary criticism as an undergraduate, and really only learned about approaches that worked once I started teaching. Similarly, I learned more about Scripture once I started preaching and teaching as a Lay Reader than I ever had before. (I should qualify that by adding that at a previous stage of my career I was privileged to be in touch with leading biblical and theological scholars who gave me a great deal of help and support.)<br />
	In the RC Church in which I was brought up, prayer was something that was performed mechanically, as an obligation, and had little to do with prayerfulness in one’s daily life. Nor was one really encouraged to study Scripture (this was before Vatican II). What attracted me to Anglicanism in my mid-30s was the freedom to explore and reflect in the light of one’s own experience, and to discuss with others who were at a different stage of their journey. My prayer-life (such as it is) has developed through the riches of the liturgy, which I was fortunate to experience in a convent setting in the 1950s, at a time when the average parochial church offered little by way of inspiration. The transition to a mid-to-high Anglican style in Scotland was very easy, and the liturgy continues to be the main setting for prayer.<br />
	So if anyone out there is hesitant about tackling these big questions, or feels that the teaching they receive is inadequate or non-existent, the good old principle of learning by doing has served me well. There are no set rules, and people of good will find their own way to God, with the help of the Spirit working through them in fellowship with others.</p>
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		<title>By: chris</title>
		<link>http://wonderfulexchange.wordpress.com/2007/06/26/just-wondering/#comment-1451</link>
		<dc:creator>chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jun 2007 14:48:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wonderfulexchange.wordpress.com/2007/06/26/just-wondering/#comment-1451</guid>
		<description>Sorry - that should read &quot;environment and trust&quot; in section 3!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry &#8211; that should read &#8220;environment and trust&#8221; in section 3!</p>
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		<title>By: chris</title>
		<link>http://wonderfulexchange.wordpress.com/2007/06/26/just-wondering/#comment-1450</link>
		<dc:creator>chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jun 2007 14:47:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wonderfulexchange.wordpress.com/2007/06/26/just-wondering/#comment-1450</guid>
		<description>Every time I go on holiday, I come back to interesting conversations and feel I&#039;ve missed out! Still, better late ....
1. Where did you (/do you) learn about prayer? If it was not through the ‘normal’ life of your church, have you ever received teaching on prayer in your congregation?
I began with my first exposure in my 20s to the liturgical prayer of the SEC 1928 prayerbook, which fascinated me. But I would also count my musical experiences as formative influences in my prayer life, and have received some more formal teaching through spiritual direction.

2. What shapes your understanding of scripture? Does your experience of church lead you to believe that there is one way to read scripture or many ways?
Like Kimberly, my training tends to influence my approach to scripture - a critical approach to a piece of literature. But sometimes I can find myself reading instinctively, without any attempt at analysis, and welcome this.

3. Have you ever had a chance to talk with others in your church about your understanding of (and your potential difficulties with) central aspects of faith (e.g. — love, forgiveness, resurrection, redemption, judgment…)? If so, how did the conversation come about?

Because I came to faith as an adult, this has always been a part of my life. But it is only recently that I have been able to talk about such concepts as love and forgiveness in such a way as to move beyond the intellectual to the experiential and actually mean what I was saying. Cursillo provided the environment on trust necessary, and Spiritual Direction the development of this.

I cannot say that the church I attend has been a constant source of learning and nurture - there have been moments, but there have been lo-o-ong barren periods. Right now, I&#039;m in learning mode again, which is A Good Thing!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Every time I go on holiday, I come back to interesting conversations and feel I&#8217;ve missed out! Still, better late &#8230;.<br />
1. Where did you (/do you) learn about prayer? If it was not through the ‘normal’ life of your church, have you ever received teaching on prayer in your congregation?<br />
I began with my first exposure in my 20s to the liturgical prayer of the SEC 1928 prayerbook, which fascinated me. But I would also count my musical experiences as formative influences in my prayer life, and have received some more formal teaching through spiritual direction.</p>
<p>2. What shapes your understanding of scripture? Does your experience of church lead you to believe that there is one way to read scripture or many ways?<br />
Like Kimberly, my training tends to influence my approach to scripture &#8211; a critical approach to a piece of literature. But sometimes I can find myself reading instinctively, without any attempt at analysis, and welcome this.</p>
<p>3. Have you ever had a chance to talk with others in your church about your understanding of (and your potential difficulties with) central aspects of faith (e.g. — love, forgiveness, resurrection, redemption, judgment…)? If so, how did the conversation come about?</p>
<p>Because I came to faith as an adult, this has always been a part of my life. But it is only recently that I have been able to talk about such concepts as love and forgiveness in such a way as to move beyond the intellectual to the experiential and actually mean what I was saying. Cursillo provided the environment on trust necessary, and Spiritual Direction the development of this.</p>
<p>I cannot say that the church I attend has been a constant source of learning and nurture &#8211; there have been moments, but there have been lo-o-ong barren periods. Right now, I&#8217;m in learning mode again, which is A Good Thing!</p>
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		<title>By: What&#8217;s in Kelvin&#8217;s Head &#187; Picking up comments</title>
		<link>http://wonderfulexchange.wordpress.com/2007/06/26/just-wondering/#comment-1440</link>
		<dc:creator>What&#8217;s in Kelvin&#8217;s Head &#187; Picking up comments</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jun 2007 07:46:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wonderfulexchange.wordpress.com/2007/06/26/just-wondering/#comment-1440</guid>
		<description>[...] has been asking such interesting questions on her blog. Someone asked me what we were doing about the sermon discussion group this week, as [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] has been asking such interesting questions on her blog. Someone asked me what we were doing about the sermon discussion group this week, as [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Kimberly</title>
		<link>http://wonderfulexchange.wordpress.com/2007/06/26/just-wondering/#comment-1420</link>
		<dc:creator>Kimberly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jun 2007 19:20:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wonderfulexchange.wordpress.com/2007/06/26/just-wondering/#comment-1420</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m fascinated by these responses -- but a bit too tired after a long day in Edinburgh to do much with them tonight.  
Elizabeth -- part of what I love about Mists is that it shakes up lots of assumptions (at least for those of us who read it in the days of innocence).  It would make such a good book group book if it weren&#039;t so long.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m fascinated by these responses &#8212; but a bit too tired after a long day in Edinburgh to do much with them tonight.<br />
Elizabeth &#8212; part of what I love about Mists is that it shakes up lots of assumptions (at least for those of us who read it in the days of innocence).  It would make such a good book group book if it weren&#8217;t so long.</p>
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		<title>By: Elizabeth</title>
		<link>http://wonderfulexchange.wordpress.com/2007/06/26/just-wondering/#comment-1419</link>
		<dc:creator>Elizabeth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jun 2007 18:45:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wonderfulexchange.wordpress.com/2007/06/26/just-wondering/#comment-1419</guid>
		<description>This IS an interesting conversation! I ended up thinking about it last night while I had a couldn&#039;t sleep (a condition fortunately, that solved itself in due course), so, herewith my experiences!

1. Where did you (/do you) learn about prayer? If it was not through the ‘normal’ life of your church, have you ever received teaching on prayer in your congregation?

        Hard question! I suppose initially through immersion in liturgy (okay, now we can play spot the cradle Episcopalian!). Most learning about prayer I&#039;ve experienced in the context of young adult fellowship groups - in high school and college. Some teaching of technique (guided meditations, one memorable session at a retreat on lectio devina, encouragement and time given (on retreats or missions) to praying with scripture) and a lot of teaching about the importance of prayer - but as above - not exactly a how to! And lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of praying in a group - large or small (okay, this reflects the time I church hopped my way into more evangelical circles). And a fair amount of reading about it. Finally, most recently and importantly, for me, a number of Ignatian retreats, classes, what not where I&#039;ve learnt (and experience) more about prayer than in all the previous combined. I guess this is all outside of &#039;normal&#039; life of the church. Except the first bit about immersion in liturgy - that&#039;s ongoing and possibly beats the Ignatian thingy for experience.  

2. What shapes your understanding of scripture? Does your experience of church lead you to believe that there is one way to read scripture or many ways?
        
     This is harder as it has changed a lot for me. I guess going back to the cradle Episcopal thing and my liberal childhood (and current) congregation - many ways. I&#039;ve done a limited amount of academic study (fueled more by literary theory than by historical analysis, but both apply). I&#039;ve been part of a number of different congregations where the way scripture was read and interpreted varied a great deal. Some places had a very clear way (and to me limited) of reading and attendant agenda. For me, what guides my understanding? Preaching that is convincing and I trust, congruence with what I believe to be true about God and the world, guidance of the Holy Spirit (I hope!), and models of literary criticism help too! 

3. Have you ever had a chance to talk with others in your church about your understanding of (and your potential difficulties with) central aspects of faith (e.g. — love, forgiveness, resurrection, redemption, judgment…)?  If so, how did the conversation come about?
         
       Yes, as others have said, most often in small groups. This was a very big part of my experience in young adult groups - although some of those communities had pretty clear boundaries about what was and what wasn&#039;t acceptable contents of discussion - something that eventually became a significant difficulty for me! The most meaningful discussion tended to be in twos or threes or so when they happened to venture off from more formal settings. I find these conversations very rarely possible in normal congregational settings (bible studies, sermon discussion, other small groups) etc, most conducive), but have managed to leap from coffee hour to coffee shop on occasion and the outcome has been very meaningful and helpful. But in general these conversations are pretty rare for me now.

Maple syrup? Yes please! Vicky, I find that food goes with EVERYTHING but I agree, especially talk and theology.

Btw, reason I couldn&#039;t sleep was reading especially troubling part of Mists of Avalon - which I was inspired to re-read by your blog - it&#039;s so much better than I remembered it, think I was too young (and too orthodox?) the first time around and it just disturbed me!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This IS an interesting conversation! I ended up thinking about it last night while I had a couldn&#8217;t sleep (a condition fortunately, that solved itself in due course), so, herewith my experiences!</p>
<p>1. Where did you (/do you) learn about prayer? If it was not through the ‘normal’ life of your church, have you ever received teaching on prayer in your congregation?</p>
<p>        Hard question! I suppose initially through immersion in liturgy (okay, now we can play spot the cradle Episcopalian!). Most learning about prayer I&#8217;ve experienced in the context of young adult fellowship groups &#8211; in high school and college. Some teaching of technique (guided meditations, one memorable session at a retreat on lectio devina, encouragement and time given (on retreats or missions) to praying with scripture) and a lot of teaching about the importance of prayer &#8211; but as above &#8211; not exactly a how to! And lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of praying in a group &#8211; large or small (okay, this reflects the time I church hopped my way into more evangelical circles). And a fair amount of reading about it. Finally, most recently and importantly, for me, a number of Ignatian retreats, classes, what not where I&#8217;ve learnt (and experience) more about prayer than in all the previous combined. I guess this is all outside of &#8216;normal&#8217; life of the church. Except the first bit about immersion in liturgy &#8211; that&#8217;s ongoing and possibly beats the Ignatian thingy for experience.  </p>
<p>2. What shapes your understanding of scripture? Does your experience of church lead you to believe that there is one way to read scripture or many ways?</p>
<p>     This is harder as it has changed a lot for me. I guess going back to the cradle Episcopal thing and my liberal childhood (and current) congregation &#8211; many ways. I&#8217;ve done a limited amount of academic study (fueled more by literary theory than by historical analysis, but both apply). I&#8217;ve been part of a number of different congregations where the way scripture was read and interpreted varied a great deal. Some places had a very clear way (and to me limited) of reading and attendant agenda. For me, what guides my understanding? Preaching that is convincing and I trust, congruence with what I believe to be true about God and the world, guidance of the Holy Spirit (I hope!), and models of literary criticism help too! </p>
<p>3. Have you ever had a chance to talk with others in your church about your understanding of (and your potential difficulties with) central aspects of faith (e.g. — love, forgiveness, resurrection, redemption, judgment…)?  If so, how did the conversation come about?</p>
<p>       Yes, as others have said, most often in small groups. This was a very big part of my experience in young adult groups &#8211; although some of those communities had pretty clear boundaries about what was and what wasn&#8217;t acceptable contents of discussion &#8211; something that eventually became a significant difficulty for me! The most meaningful discussion tended to be in twos or threes or so when they happened to venture off from more formal settings. I find these conversations very rarely possible in normal congregational settings (bible studies, sermon discussion, other small groups) etc, most conducive), but have managed to leap from coffee hour to coffee shop on occasion and the outcome has been very meaningful and helpful. But in general these conversations are pretty rare for me now.</p>
<p>Maple syrup? Yes please! Vicky, I find that food goes with EVERYTHING but I agree, especially talk and theology.</p>
<p>Btw, reason I couldn&#8217;t sleep was reading especially troubling part of Mists of Avalon &#8211; which I was inspired to re-read by your blog &#8211; it&#8217;s so much better than I remembered it, think I was too young (and too orthodox?) the first time around and it just disturbed me!</p>
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		<title>By: vicky</title>
		<link>http://wonderfulexchange.wordpress.com/2007/06/26/just-wondering/#comment-1410</link>
		<dc:creator>vicky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jun 2007 07:20:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wonderfulexchange.wordpress.com/2007/06/26/just-wondering/#comment-1410</guid>
		<description>It is rather heartening to see just how much experience of discussing theological issues goes on, isn&#039;t it.

Brunch with real maple syrup sounds ideal for such discussions.  Food and talk and theology...great mix.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is rather heartening to see just how much experience of discussing theological issues goes on, isn&#8217;t it.</p>
<p>Brunch with real maple syrup sounds ideal for such discussions.  Food and talk and theology&#8230;great mix.</p>
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		<title>By: Maureen (McKellar)</title>
		<link>http://wonderfulexchange.wordpress.com/2007/06/26/just-wondering/#comment-1405</link>
		<dc:creator>Maureen (McKellar)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jun 2007 00:35:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wonderfulexchange.wordpress.com/2007/06/26/just-wondering/#comment-1405</guid>
		<description>I thought I would answer your survey, albeit with most of my experience being from Episcopal churches - lengthy spells at 4 different churches with a variety of priests.

1. Where did you (/do you) learn about prayer? If it was not through the ‘normal’ life of your church, have you ever received teaching on prayer in your congregation?

I think I learned most from a mission lasting 2 weeks we had in Stirling run by the Franciscans.  Other sources have been a prayer group (arose out of the mission),2 or 3 parish awaydays/retreats, 2 or 3 diocesan awaydays, a workshop on intercessions, the Episcopal conferences and of course, our recent Lent Group.   On reflection a pretty mixed bag, but mostly through small groups

2. What shapes your understanding of scripture? Does your experience of church lead you to believe that there is one way to read scripture or many ways?

I think my experience of church is that sermons can lead to an impression of only one slant, if care is not taken. Small bible study groups have helped widen my understanding as does reading with commentaries and different versions.  My &#039;questioning&#039; husband also helps! 

3. Have you ever had a chance to talk with others in your church about your understanding of (and your potential difficulties with) central aspects of faith (e.g. — love, forgiveness, resurrection, redemption, judgment…)?  If so, how did the conversation come about?

I guess I have felt I could ask most of the clergy I have known (that includes deacons, priests and bishops) on any issue I have struggled with - a long chat on the Incarnation springs to mind.  However such questions are unlikely to arise on a Sunday, so it needs small group meetings (Lent Groups, etc) or parish retreats/awaydays or something similar.  As far as discussions with other lay members, these have been best in small groups, sometimes doing bible study but often doing something other than study, such as making banners, walking or washing dishes after a coffee morning.

I hope this helps, it has certainly made me think!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought I would answer your survey, albeit with most of my experience being from Episcopal churches &#8211; lengthy spells at 4 different churches with a variety of priests.</p>
<p>1. Where did you (/do you) learn about prayer? If it was not through the ‘normal’ life of your church, have you ever received teaching on prayer in your congregation?</p>
<p>I think I learned most from a mission lasting 2 weeks we had in Stirling run by the Franciscans.  Other sources have been a prayer group (arose out of the mission),2 or 3 parish awaydays/retreats, 2 or 3 diocesan awaydays, a workshop on intercessions, the Episcopal conferences and of course, our recent Lent Group.   On reflection a pretty mixed bag, but mostly through small groups</p>
<p>2. What shapes your understanding of scripture? Does your experience of church lead you to believe that there is one way to read scripture or many ways?</p>
<p>I think my experience of church is that sermons can lead to an impression of only one slant, if care is not taken. Small bible study groups have helped widen my understanding as does reading with commentaries and different versions.  My &#8216;questioning&#8217; husband also helps! </p>
<p>3. Have you ever had a chance to talk with others in your church about your understanding of (and your potential difficulties with) central aspects of faith (e.g. — love, forgiveness, resurrection, redemption, judgment…)?  If so, how did the conversation come about?</p>
<p>I guess I have felt I could ask most of the clergy I have known (that includes deacons, priests and bishops) on any issue I have struggled with &#8211; a long chat on the Incarnation springs to mind.  However such questions are unlikely to arise on a Sunday, so it needs small group meetings (Lent Groups, etc) or parish retreats/awaydays or something similar.  As far as discussions with other lay members, these have been best in small groups, sometimes doing bible study but often doing something other than study, such as making banners, walking or washing dishes after a coffee morning.</p>
<p>I hope this helps, it has certainly made me think!!</p>
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		<title>By: Kimberly</title>
		<link>http://wonderfulexchange.wordpress.com/2007/06/26/just-wondering/#comment-1402</link>
		<dc:creator>Kimberly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2007 20:48:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wonderfulexchange.wordpress.com/2007/06/26/just-wondering/#comment-1402</guid>
		<description>Maybe this is the way forward.  Brunch at the rectory once a month:  pancakes, coffee and raging battle.  The more timid could practice debating the relative merits of thin vs thick pancakes till they summoned up courage for doctrinal matters.  

If it were real maple syrup would they come??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe this is the way forward.  Brunch at the rectory once a month:  pancakes, coffee and raging battle.  The more timid could practice debating the relative merits of thin vs thick pancakes till they summoned up courage for doctrinal matters.  </p>
<p>If it were real maple syrup would they come??</p>
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		<title>By: vicky</title>
		<link>http://wonderfulexchange.wordpress.com/2007/06/26/just-wondering/#comment-1399</link>
		<dc:creator>vicky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2007 18:32:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wonderfulexchange.wordpress.com/2007/06/26/just-wondering/#comment-1399</guid>
		<description>Theological breakfasts? Gosh, I wonder how many coffees it would take me to get there....I have, however, started to read Puritan literature of 1640s (particularly an exposition on the Song of Solomon by John Cotton) on the bus to work...it would make a great discussion read at breakfast, probably second breakfast rather than first though.  And it can be interpreted in so many ways you could really get a good &#039;bait&#039; going :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Theological breakfasts? Gosh, I wonder how many coffees it would take me to get there&#8230;.I have, however, started to read Puritan literature of 1640s (particularly an exposition on the Song of Solomon by John Cotton) on the bus to work&#8230;it would make a great discussion read at breakfast, probably second breakfast rather than first though.  And it can be interpreted in so many ways you could really get a good &#8216;bait&#8217; going <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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